Curse

dread slayer · Jun 14, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

Just curious: has anyone done a poll on here about this? Is there, in fact, a measure of how many love Ursan, hate it, could care less? Short of having to read thru entire posts, which often devolve into something other than the OP's point/issue - wouldn't simply pointing to a poll end the matter?

"See? 60% of those polled love GW in its current state!"
or
"80% feel ANet went in entirely the wrong direction with PvE skills and EotN class-less system!"

If not, how do you start one?

Ask Avarre first..... Maybe he'll create one wit u i think....

Foe · Jun 14, 2008, 05:02 AM // 05:02

/signed

Anet <3's false positives

Kashrlyyk · Jun 14, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your statement is?

The game and its goals changed....

I am not talking about that. BTW: "Don´t be afraid about slow changes, be afraid of no change at all!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Whether or not the change was good is the opinion part.

And I think the changes are good, and that the players just got better at playing the game and now get bored. That is the point where an intelligent person would go play something else and the addicted cry to the producer.

Vazze · Jun 14, 2008, 05:42 AM // 05:42

GW1 is going down. It has to, to make space for gw2. And while it is doing that it is transforming into a different game for different players: unexperienced paying customers get what they want, easy progress. It is sad but anet has to make a living somewhere between gw1 and gw2.

Jetdoc · Jun 14, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Anet can pull so much data information out of their system it would make your eyes swim.

That's funny...since when does pulling data out of a system equate to opinions? You do realize that simply because someone uses something doesn't necessarily mean that they are wholeheartedly in favor of keeping it in the game, right?

For example, some of my characters use inscribable weapons. Does that mean I'm wholeheartedly in favor of the inscription system?

So, again, your premise that "the majority of players like overpowered skills" is unsubstantiated.

pumpkin pie · Jun 14, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

just go to any elite area and look for yourself ... lol no need data.

DarkNecrid · Jun 14, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

just go to any elite area and look for yourself ... lol no need data.

Doesn't really count, since most of the people who do not like/use ursan, do elite areas with guild mate(s) or friends, and therefore don't talk in chat. 8)

Shaz · Jun 14, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

Just curious: has anyone done a poll on here about this? Is there, in fact, a measure of how many love Ursan, hate it, could care less? Short of having to read thru entire posts, which often devolve into something other than the OP's point/issue - wouldn't simply pointing to a poll end the matter?

Don't really need a poll to know that most will like Ursan and all the buffs. This is after all, PvE.

hallomik · Jun 14, 2008, 06:14 AM // 06:14

I had an idea a while ago about how to get more useful feedback out of this forum.

The basic issue is that people who dislike a game element complain a lot more than the people who like that thing voice support.

There are literally hundreds of examples. When the BMP came out, those who didn't qualify complained endlessly. A lot fewer supported the promotion. Then Anet made the BMP available via the store. The original complainers went silent only to be replaced by a fresh crop of complainers saying THAT decision was wrong. From the perspective of the forum, Anet was wrong to only offer the promotion to for a limited time, and later they were wrong to offer it for an extended time.

This bias extends to Guru polls. Participation is self-determined. People with strong views are more likely to participate, and those opposed to a design feature typically have stronger feelings than those who are for it. Human nature means the forum community will, on balance, appear opposed to most changes that come along.

What could help are polls that address many issues at the same time. A forum member might be motivated by one question he is really against, but is likely to give balanced views on other issues. With enough varied topics at the same time, you would theoretically get a good take on things.

As it is, Guru is not a bad place to take the "temperature" of the community - as long as you discount it by 20 or so degrees.

samifly · Jun 14, 2008, 06:37 AM // 06:37

People with criticism are one of two groups who are louder. The other group is ones who really like the game or are extremely "loyal" to a game. These people are just as loud as critics. Most review sites have really high reviews and really low reviews. the mean is the rare comment.

The people you don't find on forums are the ones who go meh and don't care about the game anymore, or ones who aren't extremely into the game but are still playing.

Avarre · Jun 14, 2008, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Sidewinder

But I can also see that Anet is a business and in saying that they HAVE to cater to the will of their customers or they go out of business. In my opinion, they decided that drawing in new people was more important than striving to maintain their original vision.

Are you saying that PvE skills and the implementation of grind are what kept ANet in business? The game was growing before then, and the game has grown for other reasons.

How many players looked on the internet and thought 'oh my god PvE-only skills, I have to buy this game now!!'? You can replace the PvE skill example with a lot of other stuff that has been done since Factions.

On the flipside, how many saw what was being done and left, not spending further money on expansions or helping to market the game?

If during the period of Prophecies to now, ANet had say, 20% less sales overall, but their game was stable enough to be popular 10 years down the line, they'd come out on top. If there's anything ANet could take away from Blizzard, it's that if you make a good game that can last, you can keep profiting years down the line. For a game that relies on initial sales rather than subscriptions, and hence doesn't need to bend over for the community and make changes to keep subscribers, that kind of design goal fits Guild Wars very well.

There are a lot of changes ANet could have made to encourage new players to join into the competitive aspect, which had the most longevity in theory, and was the most unique and marketable aspect. Ideas have been thrown out by the community for a long time. Changing the overall gameplay was not necessary.

mafia cyborg · Jun 14, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Guru users more or less do represent the players with the useful feedback and important knowledge about all specific issues. Not because these players "asked" or "voted" for representation, but because they are the forum posters. When people actually care about their opinions on important matters, they find a medium to convey them.
.

guru is a forum made by farmers for farmers.hardly representitive of the playerbase.

aeronox · Jun 14, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

A few weeks ago, I just got so annoyed with Anet's neglect of GW1, that I sent an email, saying in 200 words roughly what you've said here.

Basically, we are the "fans", we bought this game, we respect that you're focussing on GW2, but don't lose us in the mean time. Now that there will be no more expansions to GW1, fix it up, please.

the_jos · Jun 14, 2008, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Are you saying that PvE skills and the implementation of grind are what kept ANet in business? The game was growing before then, and the game has grown for other reasons.
How many players looked on the internet and thought 'oh my god PvE-only skills, I have to buy this game now!!'? You can replace the PvE skill example with a lot of other stuff that has been done since Factions.
On the flipside, how many saw what was being done and left, not spending further money on expansions or helping to market the game?

Would I advice someone to buy GW right now?
I still would, GW from PvE perspective still has a very good value for money, specially when you consider that Proph and Factions can be found relatively cheap. Not sure on NF and EotN but even then the amount of time you can spend playing the game is very good. Even without title grind.
I'm not sure on the PvP side, it might be better to look for other games but I am not familiar with those.
Don't look at what the game used to be, look at what it still has to offer.
Not from the veteran point of view but from the starter.

The additional value from PvE skills is for the more experienced players.
It's not that hard to get a decent Sunspear/LB/Asuran/whatever rank to make the PvE skills usefull.
And those skills exist because of some design problems in GW.
PvE and PvP became too seperate in the way they function, leading to situations where a skill could be overpowered in PvP and when nerfed not being of any value anymore in PvE.
I can see why A-net tried to solve this with PvE skills.

From my point of view, it's title grind that made the game less attractive.
Because it makes people play more for achievement and less for fun.
I can enter an area and die on the last mob and laugh about it when I was in a fun team. Others will rant about the time they lost. Because they could have spend that time on something else. Every minute they don't progess in title they have to catch up somewhere else.

Also, the individual titles made a lot of people focus on one character.
That's ok but also restricting the available options to make a team.
I can imagine that I ask for a FoW run and 7 warriors show up because they all need that area on their warrior. Not willing to change to another profession, so in the end it will probably be less humans and some heroes in the team.
I would rather be able to instantly roll a PvP-like character to play some area and not getting a title benefit but being able to play for fun while testing new team builds.

While title grind does keep people going I think it would have been better to keep players involved in the game in other ways.
The base game concept is good enough and involvement should have been build around that.

Red Sonya · Jun 14, 2008, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Fine, I will go historical to get my point across.

The Athenians of ancient Greece were some of the pioneers of the political system we use, called democracy. In Athens, every male citizen was allowed to participate and vote in the assembly. It was these assemblies that passed laws and made the decisions.

We ain't livin in Athenian times bud, this is NOW, present America, Canada what have you. It don't work like that no more. Standing on a soapbox does not make ANYONE a representative of the whole and that's all anyone here is doing is standing on their OWN soapboxes and nobody elected them officials of anything. Best learn your politics and voting LAWS bud.

Sorry, but, a forum doesn't make anyone a political or elected authority. A forum is nothing more than a soapbox or sounding board. It's certainly not a representation of the PEOPLE for the PEOPLE and by the PEOPLE since nobody is elected here.

Tyla · Jun 14, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Well if you ask me, the more "Casual" player will be playing and will take anything that happens. Nerfs, buffs, whatever -- they are not bothered about it and will simply abuse things where they have the chance. Why else wouldn't they voice their opinion?

They allow the minority to decide, because they do not voice their opinion on said subject and prefer to just play and accept these changes. If they were really bothered, they would most probably voice their opinion on the subject via a community meetup, such as forums.

The fact that the game has gone downhill doesn't pursue the "Casual" player at all. Want proof? They aren't voicing their opinions.

Bryant Again · Jun 14, 2008, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

True and it creates an interesting situation.
Do the people who speak represent that majority or don't they?

We represent wanting to keep the game intact. The majority wouldn't be affected by this, since we both agree that the majority doesn't care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

I think that the players here on the various forums do NOT represent the entire GW community and don't even get close to it.
People using fan forums are on average more involved in the game then the average player.

I think the majority of players does not really care.
They use the tools available to them in the game and perhaps learn how to use 'outside' tools like /wiki.
But most probably they just play their game the way they want and are happy doing so.
Not being aware of the 'value' of the elite areas, probably not even being aware of Hard Mode.

The majority doesn't care, doesn't know. These skills were not aimed at the "casual" or the majority. They were all aimed at a minority of whining players who want everything handed to them.

And I agree: On a basic level, Guild Wars provides a lot of fun. It's why I recommend it (plus all the campaigns + GWEN are dirt cheap). But it no longer has the depth it used to, and that's what's disappointing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

And I think the changes are good, and that the players just got better at playing the game and now get bored. That is the point where an intelligent person would go play something else and the addicted cry to the producer.

It's not "our skills" that made the game easier...

dread slayer · Jun 14, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Well to be in fact its the casual players who really don't care about the updates....
And truth to be said....... everything is getting handed on a silver platter...

Kashrlyyk · Jun 14, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

....
It's not "our skills" that made the game easier...

Are you saying that after 3 years of playing the game doesn´t turn into something really easy? You know exactly when to do what etc., it is naturally that doing something, almost exclusively, for 3 years will make you feel burned out.

Tyla · Jun 14, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

It doesn't turn easy, but you already know how to overcome the challenge because you're experienced in that field.

Same difficulty, better you.